Now or Never a Nation Once Again

Gurdiev

Sounds to me like Churchill was suggesting selling out Northern Ireland in return for Irish gaelic entry to ww2. What do you think?

If that's what he meant , he was dangling a promise that was beyond his power to go along.
Unification wasn't on offer the first time round because of Unionist determination to reject it .
What had changed.

IMO , Winny kept it deliberately ambiguous. Who makes a serious negotiation offer , using a term from a popular song?
He would have put annihilation on the able to achieve what he needed at the time, and later readdressed the reality of what was possible.

The British Empire was built on brilliant diplomatic skills, backed up by powerful military forces. Most of their gains were fabricated by using their virtually sophisticated Oxbridge diplomats to negotiate with hints of promises ,personal 'friendships 'and commitments , which drew the heads of the colonies and their most powerful local families into a spider web of supposedly ' common interest' Theyvarethe undisputed masters of it, ( good luck to them , we all wished we had the power)
But Devs own instincts were pretty keen, and he knew this wasn't a serious offer.

Cruimh

A new exhibition on Winston Churchill reveals some surprising connections to Ireland: the Sligo man who taught him about oratory, an intriguing wartime telegram to de Valera, and more.

The 1941 offering is neither surprising nor a revelation ?

archivewinstonchurchill

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

It is well-known that Churchill offered the 6 counties once Ireland entered the war. Information technology shows the loftier regard the British have for the unionists who dearest them so dearly.

However, Dev knew full well the unionists would refuse to take it then decided that it wasn't worth sending thousands of Irishmen to be killed for no reason like Redmond had washed a couple of decades previously.

DT123

I find it hard to believe that Churchill would take wanted to ferment a civil war in his own back one thousand ,in the middle of a state of war.Add to this the loss of war material product in NI and the possible mutiny of the N Irish soldiers ,and information technology just does not make sense.

Just Jack

The Brits pretty much hate the colonists they planted in the Six Counties.

They don't actually have whatever real kind of identity or significant - they're like the devious canis familiaris nobody wanted.

British policy with regards to the Six Counties has ever been underpinned by the post-obit logic: 'how do we bargain with these mongrels?'

DT123

The Brits pretty much detest the colonists they planted in the Six Counties.
They don't really have any real kind of identity or meaning - they're like the stray dog nobody wanted.

British policy with regards to the Half dozen Counties has always been underpinned by the following logic: 'how practise nosotros bargain with these mongrels?'

I see y'all have used speech marks hither.Any hazard of a link to who said this?

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

I find it hard to believe that Churchill would take wanted to ferment a civil war in his ain back yard ,in the centre of a war.Add to this the loss of war material production in NI and the possible wildcat of the N Irish soldiers ,and it only does not make sense.

He promised to return them after the war, non during information technology.

DT123

He promised to render them afterward the war, not during it.

Indeed,but presumably De Valera would accept had to tell the "people" ,why they were entering the War.Word is spring to have gotten to the unionist leaders and people ,it would hardly have had a positive effect on the state of war effort.

Just Jack

Indeed,but presumably De Valera would have had to tell the "people" ,why they were entering the War.Word is spring to take gotten to the unionist leaders and people ,it would hardly accept had a positive result on the war attempt.

Why what would the colonists take done?

Starting bombing the Crown to which they claimed loyalty?

Gurdiev

I find it hard to believe that Churchill would have wanted to ferment a ceremonious war in his own back g ,in the heart of a state of war.Add to this the loss of state of war material product in NI and the possible mutiny of the N Irish soldiers ,and it simply does not make sense.

Not to mention the tens of thousands of soldiers from the Republic, who signed up for the British regular army, ( for a diverseness of motivations) , who would have felt very divided loyalties had a ceremonious war started at habitation.

Gurdiev

He promised to return them after the state of war, not during it.

Promises , promises.

Mr. Garlic

The Brits pretty much detest the colonists they planted in the Half-dozen Counties.

Who are "the Brits", amadán?

Deleted member 37475

Sounds to me like Churchill was suggesting selling out Northern Ireland in return for Irish entry to ww2. What do you recall?

I really doubt Churchill was offering NI. Given that he was a conservative leader (with links to unionism), it would seem odd for him to take such a gamble. In improver, it would exist very unlikely that NI unionists would take a United Republic of ireland, fifty-fifty if it was merely to accept identify later on war, and there would have no doubt been an even more than violent reaction to this than in 1912. It would seem to unionists that they were being stabbed in the back, and that their loyalty to the UK was being put aside in favour of a politician who once fought the British (NI unionists were fighting and dying in WW2, whereas neutral Ireland was keeping to itself).

I call up this offer is more than of a call on the 'Irish gaelic nation to join in the great state of war against the Nazi threat', more than of a call on Republic of ireland itself to fight and join. With the U.s.a. involved, he might accept thought Ireland would be more inclined to join the Allies.

Deleted member 37475

The Brits pretty much detest the colonists they planted in the Six Counties.
They don't really have any real kind of identity or meaning - they're like the stray dog nobody wanted.

British policy with regards to the Half dozen Counties has always been underpinned past the following logic: 'how practise we deal with these mongrels?'

They're still colonists even in the 20th century are they?

Presumably about 99% of Americans are still colonists as well?

Gurdiev

They're still colonists even in the 20th century are they?
Presumably about 99% of Americans are still colonists every bit well?

Some Pie'ers have memories like elephants .

Gurdiev

Having said that , I call back in that location'south a lot of ritual in NI designed to reinforce the colonial retentiveness.

Castle Ray

Having said that , I call up there's a lot of ritual in NI designed to reinforce the colonial memory.

Like what?

Gurdiev

The 'Ulster -Scots' tradition , and the Orangish tradition seem to constantly reinforce the 'carve up and distinct identity , and provenance of those groups .

Mr. Garlic

Presumably well-nigh 99% of Americans are still colonists also?

It'south e'er good to have this argument with Americans.

Now or Never a Nation Once Again

Deleted member 37475

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Castle Ray

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